|  Author | Topic: Political actions for Christians (Read 112 times) |
James Van Daele
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|  | Political actions for Christians
« Thread Started on Sept 14, 2006, 3:48pm » | ![[Quote]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif) |
I was just thinking about politics and Christians.
It seems that whenever things that are aligned or specifically unaligned with Christian views/lifestyle, those in the Christian community feel the need to be heard politically.
Specifically, abortion, gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, ect.
I think on these lines when pondering whether to attend events or protests on such things,
Why? If I don't get abortions, am not gay, and don't do drugs, why would I feel that the government should ban such things?
Sure, you could say that being politically involved in ant-abortion saves lives, that being anti-gay marriage is being pro hetero marriage and that being anti- marijuana is just simply a good stance because drugs are bad, but in reality, does it actually help anything?
I would say no, because being anti-abortion, to those who don't understand that abortion is murder, simply comes off as being unloving
When it comes to supporting anti-homosexual marriage, I would say it doesn't actually do anything for real marriage, who's status in my books is beginning to look more like a junk bond. When 50% or so professing Christians get a divorce, which is never the way it should be, why would I stand up for making the word marriage apply only to hetero-sexuals?
When it comes to marijuana, how many people really support the re-instatement of prohibition? Why? because it didn't work, it only drove the drinkers underground, actually popularizing it. In the same way, the classification of marijuana as an illegal drug, has done the exact same thing.
So, I don't support the political actions on these things, one way or the other. People may think this is unchristian, but in reality, I don't think it actually matters.
BUT.
When it comes to the aforementioned issues, I don't think that I should simply ignore it. People should know that abortion is murder, and instead of standing against abortion, I think I should stand for adoption,
And instead of standing against homo-marriage I stand for what the word marriage originally meant, to be bound together with someone of the opposite sex, to such a degree that they ceased to be two separate people, but instead, one member, without the possibility of divorce. Gays already know that it's wrong to have sexual relations within their gender, but their conscience is seared. Only God can lift that, and by railing against homosexuals politically, how can we show them love, as we are to love our neighbors and enemies, I see no regard for their righteousness as a prerequisite for us to love them.
As for marijuana, I don't use it, I think it's probably a bad idea to do so, but I have no experience to base that on, so I cannot say that it really is, no matter what public opinion holds. It seems obvious that the prohibition against marijuana has failed just as much as the one against booze did, so why try to keep the status-quo? The actual answer I think is a bit more scandalous. I think that many people politically support the ban on marijuana because they want to separate themselves socially from those who use the drug, more of a "I'm better than you, because I obey the law" type deal, than what they say, which is something like "marijuana leads to experimenting with harder drugs which are more harmful" and "it kills brain cells" and the like. Historically we see that the medical profession does not have a clean record on what is healthful, at one point they said that all alcohol was bad for you, and that tomatoes would kill you, and so forth. I don't implicitly trust the say-so of a physician on such matters, especially when taking the opposite view on such matter would likely result in ostricazation from credible scientific communities.
What do you think? Does being political about things that don;t directly effect you have a historic benefit, or can we liken it more to a past-time?
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indigoblade
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Karma: 0 | | Re: Political actions for Christians
« Reply #1 on Feb 1, 2007, 1:50pm » | |
I must respectfully disagree with your assertion. Christians are to be fully aware of the things around them and strive for change. You say that Christians should not get abortions, but not take an anti-abortion stance. Well, would a Christian seriously be expected to stand idly by while unborn children are being killed -- some of which could be rescued with proper actions?
Being anti-abortion is certainly not unloving; abortion is a thing and not a person. When people commit sins they harm themselves, so it would be unloving not to inform them of their transgression. It is a matter of choosing the correct tone. Christians should label sin for what it is, but not direct personal insults toward people.
Just because I am not gay does not mean I shouldn’t be concerned when people try to pass gay marriage into legal status. For gay marriage to be passed would give it legitimacy to future generations (and some from this one). The Bible clearly prohibits homosexuality, so to allow gay marriage is to say the Bible’s words are of no value. If gay marriage passed, its roots would only burrow ever deeper into our culture, and would eventually be seen as a normal thing.
It would result in gay couples adopting children and raising them. These children, of course, would be raised with a very distorted idea of family. I do not believe that sitting idly by while children are adopted into a parody of a family is a Christian thing to do.
It is truly sad that around 50% of Christians get divorced. However, this should be analyzed a little further. If you check government consensus data, this is about the average for the entire nation -- Christian or not. Furthermore, a large percentage of Christians are only “Christian” by name only. Some attend church for social purposes, some see Christianity as a mere part of their cultural background, and others half-heartedly accept the title without fully understanding the significance of it.
The basic point I’m making is that Christians should be concerned about the far-reaching results of political actions, and not just the immediate effect. However, do not interpret my reply in a negative manner. I am in agreement with some things you said.
You are absolutely right about Christians standing for adoption. Pushing alternatives to sinful acts would certainly have a positive effect. I just think it would be the most effective to push for adoption and oppose abortion simultaneously; it would be like a one-two punch of sorts.
In the case of marriage, I also agree that people should more fully honor the institution themselves. After all, to protest the defilement of the institution while defiling it in a different manner would be outright hypocritical. However, allowing gays to advance politically (as I said before) would only lead to greater acceptance of the gay lifestyle. This (among other factors) would result in society becoming more corrupt. As a society becomes more corrupt, people grow more hardened and less likely to heed the words of God.
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James Van Daele
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| | Re: Political actions for Christians
« Reply #2 on Mar 13, 2007, 3:18pm » | |
This is the common response that I have heard many times, but I believe that it denies the reality of conscience. The direct result of the fall of man has given all and everyone the ability to see right from wrong, and that ability can only be overcome by constant repeated striving towards heinous sin.
Therefore it is my understanding that those who are gay, support being gay, those who have no problem with divorce, abortion, murder, lying, servitude of self, ect, do in fact understand those things to be wrong, with a very small minority being given over by God Himself towards their sins for their destruction. People know God exists, nature itself testifies to this fact, they also know in varying degrees that He should be honored at very least.
Those who know their sin is wrong are in denial, telling them that they are doing wrong in my opinion is simply restating the obvious, and does not lead towards repentance, which is what God is after.
Those who do not know their sin is wrong are already handed over to the devil, and trying to help them would in fact be "casting pearls before swine" surely they will retaliate and try with diligence to "trample" us.
Collateral damage from this may be another issue, children being taught from early teachings and experience that tolerance of "other people's lifestyles" is certainly very dangerous, because it conflicts with what they already know to be wrong, and soon becomes brainwashing, replacing what they know with what they have been taught, pushing aside the conscience as something not to be trusted. The result of this is the perpetuation of the false beliefs.
As far as children being abused and molested, this is the natural consequence of sin. We in America do not want to beleive that God could be "so cruel" as to make children pay for the sins of others, but this is the way of things, no amount of lobbying will change this. Even if we are successful in making homosexual sex illegal, making abortion illegal, or the like, it in fact will continue, perhaps those who are nearby will not be hurt as much from this, but is this really a good thing?
I say it is not. This seems cruel, unkind and even unthinking, but here is why I think this. #1 God has not called us to stop other people from being evil. #2 Sins which are apparent to all show clearly what is going on with that person. #3 by making things illegal, sometimes their inward desires do not become reality, and the natural consequences are not felt, this seemingly benign form of sin is in fact the most deadly because with no actual deed, there is no knowledge of the consequences, and no real need to be saved from those consequences, I believe they will not call out to God and ask for forgiveness, they will keep their sin a secret and only in the next life will the consequences be dealt with, and this is in the end d**ning.
If we are to try to help others, we need to have a perspective from eternity, because evil from this world is temporary, but heaven or hell are permanent.
A pastor from the gulf coast region said that the best thing that ever happened to that area was Katrina. Many think this is silly at best, or cruel and insane at worst. But people woke up and realized that God could take everything from them, and they wouldn't see it coming. People Of God from all over US and CAN and other parts of the world flocked and continue to flock there to help people in the aftermath, and the fellowship of those workers is almost beyond words. People forgotten by the churches of the area were touched, those formerly condemned to a life of poverty and crime were being ministered to in a way that they formerly would have said could never happen, people helping and giving with no hope or expectation of reciprocation, giving out of their poverty or riches with the hope that they could help someone in need. A light shines in that area that did not shine before. Without the death and destruction of much, this would not happen.
Or look to the scriptures and see how many times God allowed His special people to become slaves, to allow their homeland to be desecrated, in so many way and so many times, so that they would cry out to Him and return to the loving arms of their God.
God sees the results of sin, He knows them and allows them. Who are we to try to step in and disrupt the process that God endorses?
But we can be there in the aftermath. We can visit those who have been molested, minister to those who now must deal with the pain of knowing they murdered their child, these are great opportunities that we should be looking out for far in advance of lobbying to change laws to keep the numbers of sins that we see committed down. This is the position of Children of God.
Jesus Christ was taxed in a way that was unlawful, because he was not a foreigner, and although He did not hide or ignore the fact that this was unjust, He also did not strive by means political to change the wrong practice.
I think we should follow this example. No, we should not be silent about what is wrong, lest the darkness think it has won the day, but also, we need to be much more concerned with how we can help those who need it rather than try to restrict evil from being practiced.
It a whole lot easier to sign a petition and go to a rally than it is to volunteer to care for those who are dealing with the aftermath of sin.
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Gloria
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| | Re: Political actions for Christians
« Reply #3 on Aug 30, 2007, 9:57am » | |
James, your comments are very interesting. Especially that last sentence, that is is a whole lot easier to sign a petition and go to a rally than it is to volunteer to care for those who are dealing with the aftermath of sin. I have personally felt that there was more to changing our nation than signing petitions and contacting our representatives in the legislative branches of our government. Yet I have not been clear on exactly what more to do.
What avenues are open to us? What difference can we make? What can we do that will make a lasting change? It is the hearts of people that we need to reach with God's love. God is the only one who can transform a person - or a nation. How do we tap into his plan?
Having said that, I also agree with indigoblade. I was talking with my brother a couple days ago about forming vigilante groups to protect us from the government (academic exercise  ). He made an interesting comment - people tend to get the government that they deserve. Also, that our nation's government was built on a representative model. The representative does need to know how his constituents wish him to vote. If we do not inform our representatives of what is important to us, then we have no excuse in blaming deteriorating conditions on them. I saw a bumper sticker that read - If You Don't Vote, Don't Complain.
I think we need both to care for the wounded people in our society at a local level, and to vote into government people who will make good laws. Now, 'good laws' can be interpreted a thousand different ways. I guess what's most important to me is that people have a relationship with God. Not just Christian in name, but people who have been and are continuing to be changed by God. That's the keystone.
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James van daele
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| | Re: Political actions for Christians
« Reply #4 on Sept 12, 2007, 10:29am » | |
It is very easy to know what to do, you can help by being a "Big brother" or sister, or volunteer at a local orginazation that provides alternatives to abortion. but if you really want to show Christ's love, then give to those that ask without hesitation and go help those who have lost everything in the gulf coast, then people will see Christ through you. I know that its probably a good idea to do what we can with government, but I think there is an important lesson from the history of the Church, and that is, when the government is religious, true Christianity is perverted greatly because there is no discernable difference between those following the government and society and those who truly follow Christ. I just think that caution is advisable, just as a ragged man came to israel and said "I am from a far away land and I appeal to your mercy that you would enter into a treaty with my people" who in fact was from nearby and an evil people, but because of the treaty the people of God were bound. In the same way things may not be what they seem, and indeed I will say if it is generally accepted within and without the church accept and encourage a thing, that thing is certianly of the devil and not the Christ. Because this church is full of weak christians who follow more our society that Christ, and many who attend do not know christ, but only know of Him, and those who are with the devil are nessicarily against anyone who truly knows Him, and those who are with Christ do not have commonality with unchristians, their master being the devil, and ours Christ, and there is no thing that Christ values that the devil does, and the great tactic of the devil is to pervert, not destroy, to add a little poisen to the water, to change a word here and there to slightly change the meaning inperceptably to those who are not paying close attention and have a critical eye to all that is said and done, so we must be ever at watch for the devil for it is true that many things we believe are because we heard it from people we like, but I tell you all things must be tested, even if they seem obvious, so that the devil does not have victory in our laziness.
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wowposter
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